New Association for Photographers in Ireland
Friday, Mar 19th, 2010 in Photography News, The IPWS Blog by Alan Murphy | 31 Comments
A new photographic association, The National Association of Irish Photographers, is launching on the 21st of April at the Louis Fitzgerald Hotel on the Naas Road starting at 10:00 with registration at 9:00am.
This new association will be taking in all photographers both amateur and professional into its ranks. The organisers claim it will provide regular seminars and education programs to members and encourage them to buy Irish products and services.
After the official launch the day will continue with a free seminar by photoshop guru Ramon Samutt with various demos/speakers from the trade.
The association is a registered business name since March 10th and the committee consists of Ian Blair, Kevin Cummins and John Smails.
31 Comments:
Is the National Association of Irish Photographers separate to the IPPA or affiliated with it? Is there a membership or entry qualification? I see that the organizers already have QUALIFIED NAIP logos.
When you say that you will promote Irish products and services, what exactly do you mean? Will membership provide a discount scheme?
It would be fair to say that I, as an amateur, am skeptical on the rationale for yet another grouping of photographers of any kind in Ireland.
Very strange this –
It may have been best to withhold News releases – until the NAIP.ie website was actually up and running !
As comment above – is this separate to the IPPA – if so, What are the benefits of joining NAIP to IPPA
- What does Qualified Member actually mean – how does i achieve this
C
Hi stephen,
To answer your questions, The NAIP is a totally separate entity to the IPPA, and yes there will be a discount/special offer scheme for all members through our membership card. The NAIP will be the second professional body in Ireland that is Irish. This will enable photographers both amateur and professional to gain a national qualification. We will be actively encouraging photographers to up there game both in terms of quality and service. There will also be an option for students to join at a reduced rate. We plan to place students with working photographers to gain experience. We have lots of new and exciting things planned for the rest of the year, but all will be revealed at the official launch on the 21st of April. This will be a high profile launch with the cream of the industry attending. We believe there is plenty of room for a second professional association in Ireland and the reaction so far has been fantastic. Please do come along on the 21st and see for yourself the difference this will make to the Irish Photographic Industry.
Regards
Ian Blair
National Association of Irish Photographers
“We plan to place students with working photographers to gain experience”
This is something that would interest me. I am a student currently applying to iadt (from a 1 yr VETAC course) and one of the toughest and strangest things is that I found it impossible to get work experience. Something which was a requirement for my course. I was turned down by over 30 photographers. I am also in my 30′s so its not like I am a kid, and I am quite serious about it.
Photography has always been an apprenticeship and its nice to see someone aiming to bring that back to the industry
That’s great. Finally good news. I’m a student in Photography and like many others is almost impossible to get any work experience. So I am looking forward for this.
An Irish SWPP by the sounds of it
Did you actually consider your name in terms of the Internet before you picked it? naip.ie -> nappie (almost).
What is the point in applying for your panels if I cannot achieve Master simply because I do not photographic? It’s elitist, an old boy’s club in the forming. Seems like 150 euros/year out of pocket with no tangible, worthwhile benefit.
Hi Mark, The Master qualification will be available to all members and all areas of photography. The last thing we want is to be an elite club, this is not what the association is about. But i am little confused when you say ” I do not photographic”. As to the name ( nappie ) yes we are aware but we have a sense of humour and looks like you do too.
Regards,
National Association of Photographers
From your site:
“Students will be deemed full members when they have completed their studies at college and attained qualification with the association.”
The excerpt above concerns me. This to me reeks of another attempt to bestow a ‘licence’ (a la the IPPA) to members of the group to somehow suggest that those who have not joined your organisation and paid your €150 registration fee are working as ‘unlicensed’ photographers, with the related negative implications. I’m about 3 months from completing a 4 year BA degree in Photography in DIT, and I’m in the process of establishing my practice as a registered business. Who are the NAIP to deem me ‘qualified’ only when I’ve completed THEIR program? I am constantly learning new things through my own practice as well as through my course, and if I choose not to join you association, the idea that the NAIP may try and shut me out as a practitioner in Ireland is one I find deeply troubling. What qualification are you offering, who issues it, and what official establishments outside of your organisation is it recognised by?
On the other hand, if I do join your group and rise to the rank of ‘Master of Photography’ (again, I find this incredibly misleading, as this is a title issued by what I assume is an unofficial, private enterprise which holds no legal significance in the market), will I be placed under any restrictions? Will I be forced to accept NAIP-approved pricelists as a condition of membership? I ask because I have seen many IPPA members who produce mediocre work, and still charge extortionate prices because of their affiliation with their organisation.
Of course, I’m being entirely presumptuous here. I do applaud your work experience/mentoring scheme as Dara Robinson above has commented on, and I like the idea of workshops and discounts. I guess my concerns as listed above are just a reaction to elitist, protectionist private groups and I’m perhaps casting NAIP into this category unfairly. I would, however, like to hear where you stand on the issues I’ve raised above.
Hi Rob, firstly the NAIP do not and will not have a price fixing policy. You charge according to your own standards. The NAIP will have no hand or part in this area of anybodies business. In other words the market will bare what it can bare. With regards to the NAIP in some way shutting you out this is totally unfounded. Your college qualification is more than enough to enable you to conduct your business whether you are a NAIP member or not. I cannot see how the NAIP could possibly shut you out as a practitioner. If you choose to join our association you will be in no way placed under any restrictions. You are free to operate your business the way you see fit.(Although we will have a code of conduct ) Qualifications in photography have always been a sore issue within the industry, because who is to say what is good and what is bad. Qualifications don’t make you a good photographer but they do set a standard for which to go by. The NAIP has been setup by photographers for photographers with a combined experience of over 60 years. Our qualifications are designed to set a uniform standard within the association and to ensure your customer gets the very best in service and quality . We can only achieve this by qualification. Of course you are free to operate outside of any of the associations or societies in Ireland and that of course is your own choice, but the pros of membership do far out weigh the cons, if you take into account the education aspect and indeed the social aspect.
I hope I have answered your concerns and thank you for taking the time to give your valued feedback.
We have no desire to exclude anyone from the photography industry now or in the future. This association has been put together to do the opposite, and all members will receive the same respect and consideration.
Yours sincerely
Ian Blair
National Association of Irish Photographers
Ian, thanks for taking the time to reply. It does seem that I was a bit hasty to bundle you in with the shower over in the IPPA. Best of luck.
The IPPA represents full time professional photographers who rely on photography sales to make a living. There are criteria for acceptance, including PL insurance, a professional standard of photography and full time occupancy in the business. Most, if not all, IPPA members would also be registered for VAT & PAYE. The industry is, like many others, going through a difficult economic climate, an issue which is exacerbated by the the fact that there are too many photographers for the size of the market. The over supply of photographers is further compounded by amateurs and part timers providing supposedly professional services at unrealistic price levels. This distorts the perception of what the value of professional photography actually is, in the eyes of the marketplace.
Perhaps the acronym NAIP should read as No Amateurs In Photography?
David xx
There seems to be a lot of negative responses to the IPPA which the NAIP has to now answer. This would suggest that there is definitely fire where there is smoke. I think either professional body would do well to scout out professional photographers who are not in any way affiliated and offer them free membership. Kind of like an honorary degree. It would at least show that they are not just interested in the membership fee. I also feel very strongly against the IPPA having “elite competitions” whereby only members can participate. Professional Photographers with at least 2 years full time working experience should be able to compete without the membership fee. Maybe just a competition fee. If they win, they could then submit a body of work which could be assessed for full membership as part of the “prize”. Sport clubs scout for talent all the time and are open to amateurs without charging them to be judged. Photographic Associations should do the same. Stop advertising how great ye are and start recruiting out of respect.
uh sounds good, are you going to send out emails on what the pros and cons are and why you should join a association? Im not a member of anything and i dont see the point in joining one (yet), bar paying and having a logo on top if your card/website. I have gottin where i am now from hard work and word of mouth. I have no Qualifications at all, as im self thought.
But needless to say, im always interested in new adventures etc. But to pay for joining and getting what in return is my big issue?
Regards
Nadia Power
I read your launch and having been a member of both the IPF (Irish Photographers Federation – for mainly amateurs) and now the IPPA (Irish Professional photographers Association) for the last 18 years, these associations are voluntrary, run by members who give their time freely and they are run in the interest of the members and not as a commercial venture.
From what I have read I see general seminars being run, for any photographer (pro or amateur) to attend. The orgnanisers of which are making profit. This is perfectly fine but don’t call it what it isn’t.
I really don’t see the need for another association or what the benefits would be. Will be interested to see what you say they will be when you launch. (You mention, “the education aspect and indeed the social aspect”. These are both covered in both present association.
The IPPA is run by professional photographers for professionals. A lot of our members have not only gained qualifications through the IPPA but also in Europe QEP qualifications and the US -PPofA – degress and merit programs (who have 26,000 pro photographers). I think your qualification will be confusing to the public who wishes to book a professional.
Also combining pro and amateur has no real benefits for the pro. The IPPA have run some brilliant business courses over the years and recent years with the assistance of Skillnets in the last 2 years, we had a 4 day residential business management course run last April by the top Marketing and business Lecturer in the PPof A. 13 studios took part and it was superb. I would see no benefit in this course to an amateur. I did another IPPA course in October again this would have no interest to the amateurs I’m good friends with. These courses would be of no benefit to amateurs but of huge interest to pros, so this type of course could not be run by your organistaion, if you are to satisfy all your members.
I’m a member of the IPPA and quiet happy with the association and my mother who is an amateur is an active member if the IPF which is an excellent association. The IPF allows professionals who wish to be members. My town Thurles has a very active Camera Club and I was a member of both it and the Dublin Camera Club, these are excellent clubs run through excellent voluntrary association.
Yours
Sinéad Ni Riain
Having a choice in any given market is always a good thing, it promotes competition and gives people a wide range of services of which they can avail of. We only have to look at the changes in this country in recent years, eg: insurance, mobile phones, electricity etc etc. We have a choice which has enhanced the services in this country for the common good. Why is the photography industry any different? why should it stagnate like all the other services did in the past? Why should there be amateurs and professionals? because in my experience there are plenty of amateurs out there that would wipe the floor with some of the pros in terms of ability and expertise. Pro does not = good quality, FACT
NAIP also run courses and seminars in everything from business to hands-on training for its members and will impart this knowledge that is so badly needed amongst photographers both pro and amateur and has not been provided until now. Nationwide seminars, workshops, training, student work programs, media promotions, and lots more…… come along and see for yourself before you make up your mind.
This industry in Ireland needs to lose this outdated and old fashioned way of doing things and that is what the NAIP IS GOING TO DO.
Launching 21st April 2010 Louis Fitzgerald Hotel Naas Road Dublin
I fail to see the point in joining this association if the only qualification required to join is a desire to do so.
At least the other organisations require a level of competency from their members.
No thanks.
The choice to join any association is backed up by a desire to do so, whats your point?
Referring to Phil’s comments about the IPPA extending honorary membership to some highly skilled professionals- this has indeed happened. Ann Monteith (USA) & Kevin Wilson (UK) have been made honorary members and indeed I know Ann was awarded an honorary fellowship this year.
I do not in anyway begrudge paying my IPPA fees. I have received back ten fold it’s worth in seminars, regional meetings etc- I can easily see where my money is spent.
There is no price fixing within the IPPA.
The IPPA stands for Irish Professional Photographers Association and it is just that! It is an association for professional photographers who have passed an assessment on the standards of their work and agree to adhere to a code of conduct to practice good business and treat their customers fairly. A person from this organization can be expected to produce work of a professional standard, in a professional manner and can operate with the support of their fellow photographers.
I think that due to the different needs of the amateur and professional photographer it makes sense to have separate associations for each. It would quickly dilute the trust in the pros if the public was confused as to the endorsement of amateur photographers and the difference in reliability and consistency of their work.
I don’t see the need for a separate association offering the same thing as the current body, if it is poorly set up I think it could damage the credibility of the professional photographer. I look forward to hearing what the NAIP proposes to do that would be of additional benefit to the industry.
Come along to our launch on the 21st of April 2010 at the Louis fitzgerald Hotel. All will be revealed then
Best of Luck lads, looking forward to it…
I was just wondering will you be holding seminars and placement for students outside dublin.
Hi Teddy, Yes we will indeed hold seminars and placements for students nationwide
Serious reservations about this new association, as digital era has allowed huge amount of amateur and part-time photographers flooding d market. I would suggest that professional photgraphers should boycott niap so that they don’t blur the business. Let the professionals join ippa and amateurs and part-timers join niap. Dec
Must be an IPPA member, and if your not you should be.
no i am not but can see through ure organization
I have just recently taken up digital photography and will be completing Fetac level 5 in the new year. Our tutor says it doesn’t matter what qualification you have its your portfolio that counts. Anyone care to comment?
Not another! Is there an association for photographers
who do not wish to be members of associations?
Funny you should mention that. There is one being organized over on boards.ie…. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056321282
They’re even planning to give out badges.
A couple of questions.
Who assesses qualifications? By that, i mean, who will judge what is quality work, and what qualifications do the panel hold at present?
With regards to hotels requesting insurance from a photographer who has been commissioned to cover a wedding at their venue. Do you believe a hotel manager will strongly request this from a couple and risk losing the proposed business when hotels are in need of the business? Maybe the couple have a friend of the family in mind who is not a professional, but who is capable of producing good images!
Hello,
I was wondering if students in fourth year could apply for work experience through this?
Thank you,
Catherine McCarthy